Free Designation of Deposition Testimony - District Court of Colorado - Colorado

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO --oo0oo-ROBERTA PULSE, TONYA HOUSE, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) ) THE LARRY H. MILLER GROUP, ) ) Defendant. ) ____________________________) Civil No. 03-WM-2074 (PAC) DEPOSITION OF: PAT KRONEBERGER Reported By: Karen Hourt CSR, RPR

Deposition of PAT KRONEBERGER, taken on behalf of the plaintiffs at 9350 South 150 West, Salt Lake City, Utah, commencing at 9:00 a.m. on July 21, 2004, before Karen Hourt, Registered Professional Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Utah, pursuant to Notice.

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 1 2 3 4 5 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 6 7 8 9 10 I N D E X 11 WITNESS 12 PAT KRONEBERGER 13 Examination by Ms. Ryan 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 PAGE Judith H. Holmes, Esq. HOLMES & ASSOCIATES 7887 East Belleview Suite 1100 Englewood, CO 80111 (303) 228-2267 A P P E A R A N C E S FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: Kimberly K. Ryan, Esq. THE RYAN LAW FIRM 283 Columbine Street, Suite 157 Denver, CO 80206 (303) 777-7585

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July 21, 2004 P R O C E E D I N G S PAT KRONEBERGER, Page 2

9:00 a.m.

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. RYAN: Q. Mr. Kroneberger, my name is Kimberly Ryan. called as a witness by and on behalf of the plaintiffs, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION

I'm the attorney for Roberta Pulse and Tonya House in their lawsuit against Larry Miller. Miller today. I'll refer to Larry

I'm not referring to the individual, I'm

referring to the defendant in our case, the Larry Miller Group of Companies and related entities. understand? A. Yes. MS. HOLMES: I object to that Do you

characterization of the defendant, but go ahead. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Have you had your deposition

taken before? A. Q. No. I'll go over a few ground rules that will As you can see,

help to make it go more smoothly today.

we have a court reporter here who is taking everything that we say down, who will put into a little book like

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this a transcript. You'll have an opportunity to review your testimony and make changes. If you do, however, make any Do

changes, I'll have an opportunity to comment on that. you understand? A. Yes. Page 3

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. It's important to remember that because we

have a court reporter taking what we say down, that you need to let me finish my questions before you start your answers, and I will likewise do the same. agreeable? A. Q. Yes. If, at any time, I ask you a question that Is that

you do not understand, please ask me to rephrase it and, if possible, I will do so. Otherwise, I will assume that

you understood the question and that you answered it accurately and truthfully. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Do you understand what this lawsuit is about? I think so. What is your understanding? I guess it's a harassment/retaliation suit. I'd like to talk for a few moments about your Can you please start with high Is that agreeable?

educational background. school and move forward?

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A.

Sure.

I went to Fort Collins High in Fort

Collins, and then went to -- actually, Snow Junior College for a year, Utah, and finished up at Colorado State in Fort Collins, Colorado. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Did you obtain a degree? No. How long did you go to Colorado State? Right at four years. But you did not obtain a degree from Colorado Page 4

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of? A. It is kind of a NADA, National Automotive State? A. Q. A. Q. No. Do you have any other educational history? Just training in the car business. What kind of training have you obtained in

the car business? A. Worked for General Motors, and they put me

through extensive training; finance and insurance schools. Pat Ryan & Associates Consulting Company put me

through a number of very in-depth training classes and training here at the Miller Group, Miller Business Academy. Q. So that's about it. What does the Miller Business Academy consist

Dealer Association, you know, course that we hold and put

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together that consists of all areas of the car business. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. How long is the business academy? One year. Is it located here in Utah? It's -- we just hold it downtown at a hotel. How many hours a day, is it? Eight. Have you ever had any training regarding

equal employment opportunity, harassment, or retaliation? A. Q. Um-humm, yes. That's another thing that we'll need to

remember throughout the day, try to avoid "uh-huh" and Page 5

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 "huh-uh" so we can have a clear transcript. yourself and that was great. What kind of training have you received regarding equal employment opportunity, harassment, and retaliation? A. Q. What time frame? Let's talk first about while you've been at You caught

Larry Miller. A. We've -- we have continuing education in all Human resource department is, you know,

those areas.

continually updating us, you know, on just different various issues. Obviously, you know, we have a handbook That's...

that, you know, we can refer to.

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Q.

Have you attended actual training seminars at

Larry Miller? A. Yes. Linda Jeppeson and Carolyn Ashburn have

given extensive, you know, lectures on it. Q. When you say "extensive lectures," what are

you -- are you referring to any specific training sessions? A. meeting. We have a spring meeting, we have a fall And we invite guest speakers in, you know, how

to handle, you know, these issues and just put a real focus on, you know, those types of things. Q. A. Do you have all-day training sessions? No, they normally will take -- we do them in So yes. And Carolyn Ashburn and,

the dealerships, yes.

like I said, now Linda Jeppeson go out to every Page 6

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dealership and have very extensive training with all the personnel and every dealership in these areas. Q. How many trainings regarding equal employment

opportunity, retaliation, and harassment have you personally attended while at Larry Miller? A. Let's see, in the four years I've been here,

I would say formalized twice a year. Q. We had some testimony yesterday that the

training sessions for equal employment opportunity and harassment and retaliation last about an hour to an

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hour-and-a-half.

Is that accurate? Object to the form of the

MS. HOLMES:

question, mischaracterization. THE WITNESS: I've been in classes, quite

honestly, that have gone much longer or -- you know, when Linda Jeppeson is covering an issue. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) What is the longest training

you've received on EEO and retaliation and harassment at Larry Miller? A. I would say she has gotten up in front of the

group and spoke two-and-a-half, maybe three hours. Q. What topics did she, meaning Ms. Jeppeson or

Carolyn Ashburn, cover in the EEO harassment and retaliation trainings you've attended? A. Just those topics you've mentioned, which is

the harassment, you know, just employee situations that may arise and how to handle them, you know, what the proper process is to go through, so... Page 7

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Based on the very extensive training that you

say you've received at Larry Miller, what is your understanding of what harassment is? A. Harassment, you know, I would say somebody

being put in a, you know, difficult situation that affects their job or, you know, their work environment and, you know, impedes them from doing their job or, you

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know, the atmosphere in which they work. Q. Based on your training that you've received

at Larry Miller, do you have an understanding as to whether harassment violates federal law? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: with our human resources. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) So, you don't know whether At that point I would consult Object to the form of the

harassment violates federal law after your training at Larry Miller? MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS: Same objection. Once again, I would just

consult with human resources. Q. (BY MS. HOLMES) I'm still entitled to an

answer as to whether you know or not, so I need you to answer the question. MS. HOLMES: question. And I object to the form of the

It's vague and misleading. MS. RYAN: Okay. And I object to you

continuing to coaching the witness as you did it Page 8

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 22 23 24 25 yesterday. MS. HOLMES: Colorado rules. MS. RYAN: It's not appropriate under the It's appropriate under the

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Colorado.

And if we need to get the judge on the phone You know your objections You cannot coach the

to avoid this again, we will.

are limited to object as to form. witnesses. MS. HOLMES:

I'm not coaching the witness,

but your question is unfair to him. MS. RYAN: it. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) After your training at Larry It's not, and he needs to answer

Miller, do you have an understanding as to whether or not harassment violates federal law? MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS: that. Q. the other? MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS: Same objection. I'm just very unclear. I mean, (BY MS. RYAN) So you don't know, one way or Same objection. I would say I'm pretty vague on

I'm not an expert in human resources. to human resources. Q. (BY MS. RYAN)

That's why I defer

I understand that.

I'm just

try trying to get a sense of your understanding after this very extensive training that you said you've received from Larry Miller. And I'm trying to understand Page 9

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 25 whether you have any understanding at all as to whether

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harassment violates federal law? MS. HOLMES: Q. A. Same objection. Do you?

(BY MS. RYAN) Like I said -MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS:

Same objection. -- I'm just unclear on it. Based on the training that

Q.

(BY MS. RYAN)

you've received at Larry Miller, do you have an understanding as to what discrimination is? A. Q. A. Yeah. What is your understanding? Discrimination would be, you know, an

individual that has been categorized one way or the other that is unjust or unfair to no fault of their own. Q. Based on the training that you've received at

Larry Miller, do you have an understanding as to whether discrimination violates federal law? A. Q. I'm unclear on that. Do you have an understanding as to what

retaliation means following your training at Larry Miller? A. Retaliation would be a situation that would

occur that would, you know, be an action or situation, treatment or, you know, an action taken against a person that probably seems threatening.

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Q.

Based on the training you've received at

Larry Miller, do you have an understanding whether retaliation violates federal law? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: Q. earlier. (BY MS. RYAN) Just unclear on it. You referred to the handbook Object to the form of the

Do you have an understanding as to what the

Larry Miller policy is regarding equal employment opportunity? MS. HOLMES: I'm sorry, could you repeat

THE WITNESS: Q. (BY MS. RYAN)

Yeah. You referred to the employee I'm asking

handbook in your testimony a few moments ago.

you whether you have an understanding as to what Larry Miller's policy is on equal employment opportunity. A. Q. A. I think I have a good understanding. What is your understanding? Equal employment, you know, everybody has the

right to apply for any position and without prejudice or predetermination of that individual. You know, they have

the right to apply for that particular position, and that's it. Q. Do you have any understanding as to what

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Larry Miller's policies are with regard to harassment? Page 11

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A.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt We -- you know, it's from Larry on down, that

they don't condone, you know, any type of harassment. Q. A. Q. A. Anything else? As far as? Your understanding of the harassment policy. You know, if we feel that there's a situation

and have been notified, you know, that there's -somebody has been harassed, we will immediately, you know, contact human resources. We will talk to that

individual, and we will try and correct the situation as fast as possible, you know, to the best of our ability. Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether

managers have a heightened responsibility under the Larry Miller policies regarding harassment? A. Q. Yes. What is your understanding? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: As far as understanding, you Object to the form of the

know, it's just somebody that we focus on and we talk about. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Is it your understanding that

managers have a heightened responsibility under the Larry Miller handbook --

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A. Q. A. Q.

Yes. -- regarding harassment? Yes. I also forgot when you started today, are you Page 12

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt represented by legal counsel today? A. Q. Yes. Are you testifying on behalf of the Larry

Miller Group of Companies? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: what I know. Q. I'm being deposed, I guess, for Yes, I work for the company. Do you have an understanding Object to the form of the

I mean, yes.

(BY MS. RYAN)

as to the Larry Miller policies regarding discrimination? A. Q. A. Q. Did you ask that question already? We talked about harassment. Oh, discrimination, yes. What is your understanding regarding the

Larry Miller policies regarding discrimination? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: Once again, I just check with, Object to the form of the

you know, our human resources, you know, on any individual situation and get direction. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) What is your current position?

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A. Q. A.

Operations manager. For what entity? For the automotive division, and I also am

the finance director. Q. A. Q. For what entity? The automotive division. The automotive division is part of what Page 13

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 entity? A. Q. A. It's -- that is the division. It's a division of a company? Well, there are two separate divisions in

Larry Miller, sports and entertainment, and automotive. So it's -- you have the car side and you have the Jazz and concerts. Q. You work for the automotive division of the

Larry H. Miller Group? A. Q. A. Management. Yes. Do you work for Landcar? No. Well, no, I work for Larry H. Miller

Landcar is a division -- once again, it's a

division of the automotive, say, subsidiary, if you will. Q. Let's talk about your employment history.

I'd like for you to start with your current position and work backward down through college. your employment. Let me know all of

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A.

Let's see.

Well, from now back until

April 4th of 2000 when I came aboard the Miller Group. Before that, I worked for -- I can't give you dates. definitely can't give you dates. I

But I worked for Pat

Ryan & Associates for three years, and then I... Q. So that would have been 1997 to 2000 -- and I

don't need exact dates, I just want to get an approximate time line. A. Yes. From that date back another year, I ran And that was my

a bank liquidation center for a lender. Page 14

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 own business. Q. A. Q. A. What was the name of that business? Rocky Mountain Auto. How long were you in that business? One year. F&I for -- back until -- do you

want each dealership I worked at? Q. A. Yes, please. Let's see. Foothills Chrysler Jeep in Fort

Collins for a year.

Before that was Formby Ford and that Stevinson Toyota,

was for a year-and-a-half.

approximately four years; John Elway Toyota, two years; Empire Lakewood Nissan, two years; Lakewood Fordland, one year; and GMAC, two years. Q. school? Is that all of your employment back to high

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A. Q. A. Q.

College. I'm sorry, to college? To college, yes. To college. And then you were employed

during college? A. Q. Yes. I can give you those jobs, if you want.

Each of these jobs that you've just listed

started with Foothills Chrysler Jeep to GMAC, were they in finance and insurance departments? A. Q. A. Excluding GMAC? Whatever -GMAC was collections, repossessions, floor That was basically that. Page 15 The dealerships

plan audits.

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were all F&I.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt Formby Ford was F&I -- you did a little

bit of everything, used car manager, new car manager. Q. A. What is Pat Ryan & Associates? Pat Ryan & Associates is a finance and They're a subsidiary of

insurance consulting company.

AON, which is one of the largest insurance companies in the United States. They're even over in Europe. They

are an insurance, credit life and disability, and also have other products, training, consulting, offshore companies. Q. A. What did you do for Pat Ryan & Associates? I was a consultant.

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Q. A.

What kind of consulting did you do? Went into dealerships, met with general

managers and F&I people, but it was a front-end position in the store. Q. A. What do you mean by that? You just dealt with the front end, you know,

sales managers, new and used car managers, F&I general sales managers, general managers. You know, you would

review just what they did on a daily basis. Q. position? A. Q. No. Have you ever been disciplined in any Verbal warning, written warning, Have you ever been terminated from a

position you've held: demotion? A.

Never been demoted. Page 16

No.

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Q.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt Are you aware of any complaints against you

individually for discrimination or harassment of any type? A. Q. No, I guess other than this one. I'll point out -- do you understand you're

not brought as a defendant individually in this lawsuit, you're named as a witness. A. Q. I do now. Does Larry Miller have any type of policies Do you understand that?

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that you're aware of regarding dating subordinates? A. Q. A. Yes. What is your understanding of that policy? We do not condone, management, I guess, It puts both parties in

fraternizing with subordinates.

a very -- I would say, compromising position or I guess it can. So we definitely discourage that. Who is Tiffany? Tiffany? Do you know any employees named Tiffany that

Q. A. Q. you dated? A. Q. Tiffany? A. Q. A. Q. A.

No. Do you deny dating any employee named

Yes. Have you dated any employees named Heidi? Heidi who? Have you dated any employees named Heidi? No. Page 17

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Q.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt Have you ever breached the Larry Miller

policy regarding dating subordinates? A. Q. No. Do you have an understanding as to whether

Larry Miller has a process for employees to register complaints of discrimination?

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A. Q.

One more time. Do you have an understanding as to whether

Larry Miller has a policy regarding how employees would lodge a complaint of discrimination? A. Contact, if possible, their immediate

supervisor and, if not, they're certainly -- contact human resources or anyone that they feel comfortable in going to. Q. Once an employee has contacted their

immediate supervisor or HR or anyone they feel comfortable going to, is there then a responsibility on the part of the Larry Miller employee, who has received a complaint of discrimination? A. Q. I'm sorry, one more time. Once someone has made a complaint to, for

example, their supervisor or manager, is there a responsibility then on the part of the supervisor or the manager to do something? A. Yeah, immediately. Like I said, if you can

sit down with that individual -- and it kind of depends on the situation, but verify, you know, the complaint and see if it can be, you know, resolved. Page 18 You know, once

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt again, you just get human resources involved.

And I

think that's what, you know, is probably the best route that at least most people will go.

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Q.

Are you aware of any other complaints of

discrimination, retaliation, or harassment against Larry Miller or Larry Miller's entities besides the lawsuit that we're talking about today? A. Q. A. Q. A. No. Do you know who Mark Dundon is? Yes. How do you know Mark Dundon? Mark was a general manager for us at the

Boise, over a couple dealerships. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Is he still employed -No. -- by Larry Miller? No. Why not, do you know? I do not. Do you know whether he was terminated or

voluntarily quit? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I do not. How long have you known Mark Dundon? Since I started in April to whenever he left. In April of 2000 is when you started? Yes. Are you aware of any complaints against Mark

Dundon of harassment or discrimination? Page 19

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt

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A. deposition. Q.

Just what I've read in the complaint or

Did you do anything to prepare for your

deposition today? A. Q. A. Q. Just read over where my name was mentioned. What documents did you look at? The complaint and deposition. How long did you meet with your counsel to

prepare for this deposition? A. Oh, a little this morning and a week or so

Q.

Have you produced any documents to your

counsel for this litigation? A. Q. No. Your current position is the operations

manager for the automotive division for the Larry H. Miller Group; is that correct? A. Q. Yes, and finance director. Are those two separate jobs, operations

manager and finance director? A. Q. Yes. As the finance director, do you have

employees who report to you? A. They're not, per se, my employees, they work So I mean, they don't report to me

for the dealership.

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 but, yes, you know, I have involvement with them. report to their specific store general manager. store stands on its own and -- you know, in a consulting... Q. A. What do you do as the operations manager? I oversee nine stores, you know, the They

Every

operations of them. Q. In that capacity, do you work with the

general manager of those nine stores? A. Q. Yes. In your capacity as finance director, do you

work with finance managers of the stores? A. Q. Yes. Is there a difference between a finance

manager and a finance director? A. It depends. Yes, it is -- yes, there is.

And, you know, sometimes an individual will get a title and it may not be what I think might be the right title, but, you know, yes, there's a difference. Q. A. So in the stores sometimes -It's not really a finance manager, it's more

of a finance contractor, finance manager. Q. In the stores are there some individuals who

hold the title of finance director? A. Yes.

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Q.

They would just be for that store; whereas,

you're the finance director for the automotive division? A. Yes. Page 21

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. employees? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Dundon. No. Do you know Tonya House? Yes. How do you know Ms. House? She worked for our dealership, Denver Toyota. We were talking a moment ago about Mark Do you have the authority to hire and fire

Is it your testimony that before you read the

depositions, you had no knowledge of complaints of discrimination or harassment against him? A. Q. A. Q. No. That's not your testimony? No, that is my testimony. Yes.

So your testimony is that before you read the

complaint preparing for your deposition, you had no knowledge of any prior complaints of harassment or discrimination against Mark Dundon? A. Q. Correct. You said that Mark Dundon worked as a GM for

Larry Miller in Boise? A. Yes.

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Q.

Is that the most recent position that you're

aware of that he held before he left Larry Miller? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. What dealerships was he general manager of? He was Capital Motors and Subaru Mitsubishi. Do you know how long he held that position? Page 22

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. He was here before I came here, so I don't. Were you aware that he had been assigned to

Denver to work as a general manager? A. No, I didn't know he was assigned. I knew

that he had, you know, been there for, you know, a small period of time, but that's kind of -- that's a -Q. Did you know that from reading the documents

in this case or did you have knowledge about that before? A. No. Mark had mentioned it to me, just, you It was when I was

know, I'd been over to Denver Toyota. being recruited, is why I remember it. Q.

Did he mention any problems or difficulties

that he'd had at Denver Toyota? A. Q. No. Based on your training at Larry Miller, if a

general manager went into a female employee's office, shut the door, and ripped all of her Christmas cards off the wall and threw them at her, would you consider that to be harassment?

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A. Q.

Well, I wouldn't consider it very nice. Based on your training, I'm asking whether

you would consider it to be harassment. MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: harassment. I would not consider that If he Object to the form of the

I would consider that a bad act.

continued to do things of that nature, I would consider that as harassment. If he walked in there every day and Page 23

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. threw something at her, I would consider that harassment, yes. If it were a one-time event, you know, hopefully,

that wouldn't happen again. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If a male general manager

referred to finance meetings between a controller and a finance manager as cookie breaks, would you consider that discriminatory or harassing? A. Q. I'm sorry, one more time. If a general manager referred to the meetings

that his employees held between the controller and the finance manager female employees, if he referred to that as cookie breaks, would you consider that discriminatory or harassment, based on the training you've had at Larry Miller? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

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THE WITNESS:

Once again, I would not

consider that as harassment or discrimination; I would consider that as, you know, an inappropriate comment. Now, once again, if it was a daily, you know, thing that continued, I would consider that, yes, as harassment. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If a male general manager went

into a subordinate female employee's office and put his arms on her shoulder and tried to give her a massage, would you consider that harassment, based on your training at Larry Miller? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the Page 24

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. THE WITNESS: If he -- if it were THE WITNESS: inappropriate. Q. harassment? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the (BY MS. RYAN) You wouldn't consider it I would consider that

something -- once again, a continuing deal, I would consider -- to me, harassment is, you know, something that takes place multiple times. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Based on your training that

you've received at Larry Miller, do you have any understanding as to whether harassment can occur based on

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a one-time incident? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: To me, a one-time event that Object to the form of the

person may have been harassed -- harassment to me is an ongoing situation. Can we have a bathroom break? Sure. That's fine I forgot to

MS. RYAN:

mention, if you need a break, let me know. (A brief recess was taken.) Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If a manager -- general

manager told a subordinate employee -- female employee, that he thought redheads were great in bed, would you consider that to be a harassing comment? A. Once again, I would consider that as Once again, my understanding that I Page 25

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 perceive harassment, you know, was a person harassed or are they being -- is it harass -- you know, harassment. And I guess if you term -- put the terminology to one act as harassment, I've always thought it was multiple. know, they continue to harass this individual. individual to make that comment, I view that as inappropriate. Q. If a female employee told you that a general You

So for an

manager that she reported to had said that to her, would you consider that a violation of the Larry Miller

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policies? A. Q. Absolutely. If a general manager said to a female --

asked a female employee who had red hair if she had a burning bush, would you consider that as a violation of Larry Miller policies? A. I guess I would wonder in what context that

comment was made. Q. If a general manager told a female employee,

who happened to have red hair, that he thinks redheads are wild in bed, sex in bed is great with redheads, and then asked her if she had a burning bush, would you consider that to be a violation of Larry Miller policies? A. absolutely. Q. If a general manager told a female employee That whole comment that you just read,

that she was too old for him, but he'd fuck her anyways, would you consider that to be a violation of Larry Miller Page 26

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 policies? A. Q. Yes. If a general manager who had made these

statements that we just discussed also tried to touch an employee -- a female employee, by putting his hand on her shoulder in the front part of her chest area, would you consider that to be a violation of Larry Miller policies?

30

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 question. question.

MS. HOLMES:

Object to the form of the

THE WITNESS:

You know, based on what you

described, I guess I would have to see a, you know, visualization of how that occurred, if it was just a brush up or passing or -Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If the general manager who had

made the comments that we discussed went into his female subordinates office, closed her door, approached her, and tried to touch the front part of her shoulder near her chest area, would you consider that a violation of Larry Miller policies? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

THE WITNESS:

Well, once again, I mean, I I don't -- I can

would have to see how that took place.

tell you that nobody has the right to touch any female in the breast area, period. So when you say the shoulder, I think a

breast area, it's a little vague for me. handshake would be much more appropriate. Q.

(BY MS. RYAN) If a manager touched a female Page 27

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 22 23 24 25 employee on the shoulder/breast area and she asked him to stop, would it be a violation, in your estimation of the Larry Miller policies, if he tried to touch her again after that incident?

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A. Q. St. John? A.

Yes. Do you know who Nicole St. John is? Nicole

No.

Or I should say no, I don't think so.

You tell me. Q. Do you know whether Larry Miller Group does

mini audits? A. Q. Yes. What is your understanding of the purpose of

a mini audit? A. A mini audit is just to go in and spot-check,

you know a variety of, you know, different categories in an automotive dealership and, you know, find out if there's any -- you know, any problems. It gives you a

quick snapshot of the dealership in different areas. Q. Is part of the purpose of the Larry Miller

mini audit to see if the dealerships are following the policies? A. Q. Yes. Is part of the purpose of a mini audit to see

if the dealerships are collecting money from vendors? A. Q. Yes. Is part of the purpose of a mini audit to see

if the dealerships are collecting contracts in transit? Page 28

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 25 A. Yes.

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Q.

Is part of the purpose of a mini audit to see

if the dealerships are reconciling bank accounts? A. Q. A. Yes. Have you ever participated in a mini audit? I personally haven't, you know, done the mini

audit, but I've sat in an exit -- you know, interview, I guess, on a mini audit. Q. A. Q. A. Do you utilize mini audits in your position? Yes. How do you utilize them? Well, after we get the mini audit back, you

know, from the people that conducted it, you just review it and call that general manager up and review it with him and say, "Hey, you know, you have these issues and, you know, let's get them corrected or let's look at the policies and procedures to correct these, you know, issues that maybe the mini audit found or uncovered. It's actually a pretty good tool. Q. managers? A. Q. No. Are you aware of any female general managers Does Larry Miller have any female general

that Larry Miller has ever had or -- strike that, that's kind of a bad question. Do you know whether Larry Miller has ever had

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a female general manager? A. In my four years, no. And I don't know about

before then. Q. Do you -- are you part of the corporate

management team? A. Q. A. Yes. Who is on that team? There's -- well, we can start with Richard

Nelson, Bryant Henry. Q. And actually, too, while you're listing So Richard

these, if you could put in their titles. Nelson is a -A. COO.

Bryant Henry is vice president of

operations; Tony Schnurr, vice president of operations; myself, Pat Kroneberger, vice president of operations. You have Clark Whitworth, who is the CFO. Then you have You

me again as the finance director, Pat Kroneberger. have Jack Muterspaugh, who is over the service departments. department.

You have Dan Ware, who is over the parts You have -- do you just want the head of There are a few people

that -- of each department? underneath. Q. department. A.

Does that matter? Let's just start with the heads of the

You have Linda Jeppeson, who is human

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt what her title is, special projects, I think is -- you have Dan Curtis, who is head of Landcar; Robert Tingey, who is counsel; Jim Shoenfield, which is our IS director; Al Fernelius, which is accounting; Brent Barrett, accounting; Richard Dickert, accounting; Paul Nygaard, who really is under LHM advertising. go around up here. Oh, Erwin Ashenfelter, real estate projects. That's pretty much it. just walking by. Oh, Dave Monson, since he was I'm just trying to

Dave Monson is -- I guess, the best way

to call him would be -- he is in charge of federal programs OFAC; Graham Litzbiley, he is constantly out in the dealerships educating them on that. Q. Thank you. That's it.

If a member of your corporate

management team said that he didn't like to hire women, not even dikes for his department, would you consider that to be a discriminatory or harassment statement under Larry Miller policies? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: I would consider that as It was a comment. Object to the form of the

discriminatory, yes; harassing, no. Q. harassing? (BY MS. RYAN)

Do you think comments can't be

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MS. HOLMES:

Object to the form of the

THE WITNESS:

Once again, I just think

harassing, to me, is multiple, you know, somebody is Page 31

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt being harassed multiple times. I think a situation stands on its own and if it continues, yes, it's very harassing. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) But you do acknowledge that

even one instance of harassing conduct can be considered a violation of Larry Miller's policies? A. first? Well, what was your -- how did you phrase it I consider that discriminatory.

Discriminatory.

That's what I consider that. Q. Do you acknowledge that one instance of

harassing conduct can be a violation of Larry Miller's policies -MS. HOLMES: question. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) -- based on the training Object to the form of the

you've received at Larry Miller? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: Once again, I'd have to know Object to the form of the

what the situation was, but... Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Did Tonya House ever make you

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aware of issues that she was having related to her pay plan? A. Q. A. Yes. What was your understanding of those issues? Tonya called me up and, quite honestly, I It

couldn't tell you even how the call was initiated. wasn't initiated for a pay plan issue. Page 32

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt fact, I can't even tell you that she called me or I called her, and I'll tell you why I remember, is whatever we were talking about, could have just been daily, you know, whatever, and she said, "There's been a mistake in my pay," and you know, rattled off you know some numbers, but I couldn't tell you what they were. And I was, like, "Okay. Well, have you

spoken with anybody about it," you know, specifically. In the time frame that this came up, the general manager was Bob Cockerham, and the reason why I know that -- and I'll tell you in a second -- is she through -- however she said it, she said, "You know, there's a mistake in my pay" and rattled off some percentages. And I said, "Well, have you talked to anybody?" "Well, I have in the past, but nothing has And I said, "Okay. Well, how

ever been done about it." much are we talking?"

And that's why I remember the

conversation because she said, "Well, it's like $33,000."

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And I was like, "Okay." discrepancy.

Obviously, that's a pretty big

So I said, "Well, go mention it to Bob and I will do the same," which I did. Next time I talked to

Bob -- couldn't tell you the gist of the conversation, if he called me or I called him or what we talked about. But I said, "By the way, Tonya feels that we -- she's owed $33,000 for back pay, you might want to look into it." And that's my involvement in that. Q. Do you have any understanding as to whether Page 33

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt she was ever paid $33,000 for back pay? A. Q. A. Yes. What is your understanding? She got paid. It was also -- and let me add

-- mentioned to Tony Schnurr and Tony's take on it was "If we owe it, let's pay it. look into it once again." You know, let's have Bob

And Bob did and she got paid. In fact,

And that was kind of the last I heard of it. that was the last I heard of it. Q.

Did you ever receive any complaints, whether

formal or informal, could be just a conversation on the phone, from Roberta Pulse or Tonya House about Bob Cockerham's management? A. Roberta, no. As a matter of fact, in the

deposition Roberta's comment was, "Do you know Pat

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Kroneberger?

Did he harass you?"

She said, "I couldn't

pick him out of a lineup." Roberta.

I, too, don't remember

Tonya did call me and said -- basically, she said "I can't work for Bob anymore. He is, you know,

getting me in these daily save-a-deal meetings and I just can't work for Bob." to Bob?" And I just said, "Have you talked

And she hadn't, but things weren't very good

between them, apparently. At that point, once again, I don't think it would have been a conscious, "Call up Bob," it was just the next time we talked and I said, "By the way, Tonya's pretty unhappy, you know, feels like" -- you know, I Page 34

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt don't even know what the terminology was, but she was unhappy and you may want to talk to her about it. And, you know, Bob did express to me, you know, that -- you know, they were having these daily save-a-deal meetings and knowing Bob from the dealership he came from, Bob has a very good FI background, he's very pro finance and insurance oriented, and he's very involved and very active on a daily basis on car deals and all the things that go with them. He felt through, you know, the save-a-deal meetings that were conducted there were, you know, some loose ends, you know. So that was pretty much my

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involvement in that. Q. Did Tonya House tell you that he was singling

her out and yelling at her in these save-a-deal meetings? A. Q. No. Did she ever tell you that Bob Cockerham

would yell at her? A. No. I know she didn't like the meetings, she She's like, you know -- like I

didn't care for them.

said, I can't give you the word for word, I can't even give you -- I can just give you -- I remember she called me. She didn't like the meetings, never had to do them

before, didn't have to do them under Newendyke or, I don't think, any other previous GM. Knowing Bob the way I do, like I said, save-a-deal is a -- from a company that I came from, Pat Ryan & Associates, it's trained, it's -- you know, it's Page 35

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt an accepted practice in the car business. You know, if you take, say, for instance, yesterday if you were the general manager, we delivered, let's say, ten cars. And of those ten cars, let's say

each one was worth $30,000, which probably is not a stretch for Toyota, there you have, since you floor your cars from the bank, we don't own the cars, we floor them... Q. I do appreciate your attempt to explain this,

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but we have very limited time today.

So I'm going to

just need to keep the questions kind of focused. A. Q. Okay. And I understand what you're saying is that What you're saying is

-- and correct me if I'm wrong.

the save-a-deal meetings you felt were an accepted practice -A. Q. Absolutely. -- in an effort to maintain some control over

the car deals? A. Q. Yes. Would it be acceptable if you knew that a

general manager, who was conducting the save-a-deal meetings, was yelling at a female employee in front of the other employees? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: Q. (BY MS. RYAN) One more time. Based on your training of the Object to the form of the

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt Larry Miller policies, would you consider it acceptable for a general manager to single out a female employee and yell at her in front of the other employees during these save-a-deal meetings? MS. HOLMES: question. Object to the form of the

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q. acceptable? A.

THE WITNESS: (BY MS. RYAN)

That wouldn't be acceptable. Did you say that would not be

That would not be acceptable.

And that's I think we

just not for a female, that's for anybody. can get our point across without yelling. Q.

Were you involved in the decision to

terminate Richard Newendyke's employment? A. Q. No. Did you have an understanding that at some

point Richard Newendyke's employment had terminated and that Bob Cockerham was installed at the dealerships? A. No, I wasn't involved in it, I just knew Bob I was finance manager, I wasn't

got sent over to Denver.

privileged to those conversations. Q. But you remember that at some point Bob

became the finance manager -- Bob Cockerham became the finance manager at the Denver dealerships? A. Q. A. Q. General manager? Yes. Yes. Do you recall that he became the general Page 37

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt manager sometime in March of 2001 in Denver? A. Q. Who? Bob Cockerham. Let me ask that again, it was

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kind of a -- do you recall that Bob Cockerham became the general manager in Denver sometime in March of 2001? A. Q. If that is the date, yes. Did you make any visits to Denver within the

first month or so after his installation as general manager? A. Q. I'm sure I did. Were you ever present when Mr. Cockerham was

interviewing an employee named Barb Ryerson? A. Q. I don't recall. Do you recall whether Bob Cockerham was

interviewing employees for the position that Roberta Pulse held at that time? A. Q. interviews? A. Q. I don't recall. Did you have an understanding as to whether Yes. Do you recall being present for any of those

Bob Cockerham was looking for replacements for Roberta Pulse sometime in April of 2001? A. As far as the dates, if you say so. I know

Bob was looking for an office manager, yes. Q. Do you recall being present for any of the

interviews that Bob conducted? A. I don't. Page 38

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Q.

Do you remember Tonya House asking you

whether Roberta Pulse was going to be fired during that same time frame? A. Q. No. Did you ever have any conversations with Bob

Cockerham or anyone else discussing how great it was that the employees or, more specifically, Roberta Pulse was worried about losing her job? A. Q. No. Did you at some point become aware of Tonya

House's efforts to move up in the company and gain a promotion? A. Q. No. Did you ever announce on a conference call

that Tonya House had been promoted? A. Q. No. Did you ever on a conference call announce

that Tonya House had been promoted and asked everyone to give her a round of applause? A. Q. A. No. May I respond or add?

Sure. We had a conference call once a month. When

new people come on, we welcome them, which we did the person that went into Denver Toyota. transferred to 104th. And Tonya had been

And yes, I'm sure we may have

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. THE WITNESS: Like I said, if that were the given them a welcome and round of applause, yes. Q. So, Tonya was transferring from the Denver

Toyota store to the 104th store? A. Q. Yes. Did you announce on the conference call that

that was a promotion for Tonya? A. Q. No. Did you ask the people in the conference call

to give her a round of applause for her promotion? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

case, it would traditionally be a "Let's welcome this individual" and, you know. different situations. Q. A. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Did you like Tonya House? We do a lot, I guess, in many

Yeah, Tonya did a good job for us. Were you ever aware of any comments by Tony

Schnurr related to Tonya House or Roberta Pulse being bitches or troublemakers? A. No. Once again, I was the finance director,

and I was not privileged to, you know, a lot of, you know, conversation in that regard. But no, Tony never

made any comments to me, whatsoever. Q. Do you think that it would be appropriate

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under the Larry Miller policies to give a promotion to a male employee who had harassed his female subordinates? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the Page 40

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) -- based on your training that question. THE WITNESS: Would it be appropriate to give I

a promotion to someone who harassed subordinates? don't think that would be appropriate. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Have you ever heard any

comments that Tony Schnurr had a, quote, hard on, end quote, for Roberta Pulse? A. Q. No. Do you think it would be harassing if a

general manager called a female subordinate a piece of shit -MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

you've received by Larry Miller and based on Larry Miller's policies? MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS: appropriate comment. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Do you think it would be Same objection. That would not be an

harassing or discriminatory for a male general manager to tell his female subordinate that he thinks she's a piece

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of shit, based on your knowledge of Larry Miller's policies? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: inappropriate comment. Page 41 I just think it's an Object to the form of the

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. THE WITNESS: Well, if you just -- number Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If a manager told you that

another manager had said that to his female employee, do you think it would be appropriate to take any measures? A. Q. Yes. What kind of measures? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

one, I would first want to find out from the individual that it was supposedly said to, you know, "Was this said to you, under what circumstances, you know. And I would

get with the individual at that point who said it, ask them if they said it. You know, I'd contact human resources before and let them know that, you know, this has been alleged this individual said it. And if it had, I would have

that person written up or have it put in their file. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) If a male general manager

called a female subordinate a piece of shit on a repeated

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basis, say, five times, would you consider that a violation of Larry Miller's policies against discrimination and harassment? A. That certainly would violate our policy.

That certainly would be harassing. Q. Did Tonya House ever talk with you about an

offer that she received from Richard Newendyke for her to go to the Used Car Supercenter and take on more responsibilities? Page 42

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. No. How many times did Tonya complain to you

about Bob Cockerham? A. phone call. Q. Well, the one time that I referred to the That's really it. Would you dispute Tonya's contention that she

told you on more than one occasion of harassing conduct by Bob Cockerham? A. As best as I can remember, yes, I would. I

do remember the one phone call and she was upset, yes. Q. Did you ever tell Richard Newendyke that you

were disappointed that Tonya wanted to branch out and not just focus on F&I or words to that effect? A. Q. No. When Tonya House was pregnant, did you ask

her if she was going to stay home with her baby?

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A. Q.

No. Are you aware that in or around May of 2001

there was a computer conversion at the Denver offices converting the systems from Reynolds & Reynolds to ADP? A. If that's the time frame, I know that there

was a conversion, yes. Q. conversion? A. Q. No. Do you know who determined the timing for the Were you involved in any way in that computer

computer conversion for the different dealerships? A. No. I mean, I can certainly speculate or... Page 43

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. I don't want you to speculate. No. Okay. Just not privileged to that. I certainly

wasn't privileged to any of that. Q. Did you ever hear any statements alleging

that Roberta Pulse had stolen money from Larry Miller? A. Q. No. Did you ever hear any statements alleging

that Roberta Pulse had engaged in irregular accounting practices? A. No. I mean, personally didn't. You know,

after, you know, she was gone, there was -- there was

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quite a bit of just things that I wasn't really involved in. Q. A. What things are you referring to? Just, you know, accounting. They had to take

people from here, or wherever they got them, over there to help out with accounting stuff. Q. When did you learn -- or strike that. At some point did you become aware that Roberta Pulse and Tonya House had filed charges of discrimination with the EEOC? A. Q. A couple years ago. I don't know.

Do you remember being contacted or questioned

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in management in a meeting saying that Roberta Pulse and Tonya House had lost their EEOC case? A. Q. A. Q. No. How long have you known Tony Schnurr? Four years and three months. Were you ever aware of any comments or

statements that Tony Schnurr either didn't like Roberta Pulse or thought she was a troublemaker, words to that effect? A. No.

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Q.

Based on your training at Larry Miller, if a

member of the management team said to transfer a female employee to a different store and to keep her away from the men in that store, would you consider that to be discriminatory based on Larry Miller's policies? MS. HOLMES: question. THE WITNESS: situation. to me. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) But if a member of the I guess if that were the Object to the form of the

It seems kind of a highly unlikely scenario

management team had made that -- had directed an employee to do that, to transfer a female employee to another store and keep her away from the men, do you consider that to be discriminatory statement under Larry Miller's policies? MS. HOLMES: question. Page 45 Object to the form of the

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 one. THE WITNESS: I don't know. I'm not sure how to answer that

I wouldn't let it get to that point.

There's obviously an issue. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) But if a manager said that and

you became aware of it, do you think that that would be a violation of Larry Miller's policies, a discriminatory statement, directing an employee to transfer a female

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employee to another store and keep her away from the men? MS. HOLMES: question. Object to the form of the

It's been asked and answered. THE WITNESS: Not to not answer your

question, I don't see that as being a realistic comment or situation. that. Not anybody that I know -- you wouldn't do

How would you do that, I guess? Q. (BY MS. RYAN) You mean actually implement

that directive? A. Yeah. I guess to me, therefore, I don't It's

think that that's a valid, even potential comment. almost... Q.

Would you take it seriously if an employee

told you that a member of the management team had said to transfer a female employee to another store and to keep her away from the men? A. I'd take any situation that, you know,

potentially is a human resource issue seriously, absolutely. Q. So beyond your disbelief that someone could

actually say that, if you learned that a member of your Page 46

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 22 23 24 25 management team had actually said to transfer a female employee to another store and to keep her away from the men, would you consider that a discriminatory statement under Larry Miller's policies prohibiting discrimination?

52

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 question. can. Q. question. A. statement. Q. question.

MS. HOLMES:

Object to the form of the

THE WITNESS:

Based on the question, I

honestly can't answer that, because I don't think that it's a real situation. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Well, I'm entitled to have you

answer these questions, and as the deponent you need to answer the question whether or not you think that it's a real comment or not. I'm just asking you as a member of the management team at Larry Miller, who has received extensive training on the policies, if you became aware that another member of the management team had said to transfer a female employee to another store and to keep her away from the men, would you consider that a discriminatory statement under the Larry Miller policy? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the He said what he

It's been asked and answered.

(BY MS. RYAN)

You do need to answer the

I consider it a very either stupid or poor That's what I consider that. Would you consider it something that Page 47

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 25 warranted further investigation?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 times.

A.

If that had actually been said, because I

feel that it is so ridiculous, I would investigate that, yes. Q. And if you found that it actually had been

said, based on the Larry Miller policies, do you think, based on your training, that you would consider that a discriminatory statement? MS. HOLMES: question. Object to the form of the

It's been asked and answered several times.

You're harassing the witness. MS. RYAN: harassing the witness. MS. HOLMES: He has given his answer several No, I'm not harassing. I am not

MS. RYAN:

He hasn't.

There's been several

variations of the question and I'm entitled to do that to get the answer. MS. HOLMES: going beyond. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Answer, please. Please answer I object, and I think you're

the question. MS. HOLMES: this repeated -THE WITNESS: please. Ask that question again, Object to the form and object to

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 54

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question. A.

MS. RYAN:

Can you look at the last

variation, please, of that question? (The last question was read back.) MS. HOLMES: THE WITNESS: to answer that. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Would you be concerned if you Same objection. My answer is I don't know how

learned that a member of your management team directed an employee to send a female employee to another store and to keep her away from the men? MS. HOLMES: Object to the form of the

Based on the answer that I've given you,

which apparently is unacceptable to you, I don't know how to answer that question. MS. RYAN: nonresponsive. Q. (BY MS. RYAN) Were you involved in the Move to strike the answer as

decision to split the accounting functions of the Larry Miller Toyota store in Denver and the Used Car Superstore in Denver? A. Q. A. No. Do you know who was? No. MS. HOLMES: Can we take about a five-minute

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1

break? Page 49

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 upset. Q. A. Q. Q.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt MS. RYAN: We can take a ten-minute break. And I'm really about to finish. MS. HOLMES: MS. RYAN: Great.

So I think we'll be very close to

being done when we come back. THE WITNESS: Great.

(A recess was taken.) (BY MS. RYAN) Earlier you testified that

Tonya House had a phone conversation with you in which she said that she was having problems with Bob Cockerham; is that correct? A. Q. Yes. Did you ask her at that time what the

problems were? A. Q. A. I'm sure I did. Yeah, I'm sure I did.

Do you remember what she said? No. I mean, honestly, I don't, but she was

Did you make any notes of that phone call? No, I did not. Do you remember her telling you that Bob

Cockerham was belittling her? A. Q. No. And I'm sorry I --

So, you don't remember specifically what was

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said? A. Q. I don't, I just know she was upset. And you know that she was upset because of

the conditions she was under working with Bob Cockerham? Page 50

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5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 us.

A. meetings. Q.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt Yes, you know, and specifically the morning She was upset. Did you follow up with human resources at all

about that conversation? A. Q. No. Did you think that Tonya House was paid too

much in her position as a finance manager or finance director? A. Q. A. No. Did you think she was a good employee? Yeah. Yes. Yes, Tonya did a nice job for

Q.

Do you remember whether Tonya House ever told

you that she was going to have to quit because she couldn't work for Bob anymore? A. Bob Cockerham, that is.

Once again -- and I want to answer as

truthfully as possible, because the situation did exist. And I can't tell you what she said, but I do remember her saying, "I cannot work with Bob Cockerham." And I don't

recall her using the words "I'm going to quit." She was frustrated, upset, and "I just cannot

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work with this man -- individual, I can't do it."

And

which at that time I just said, "Have you spoke to Bob about it?" I said, "Well, let me speak to Bob." And

like I said, whenever the conversation came up, "Hey, Tonya is upset." da-dah da-dah. other than... Page 51 Of course, Bob had his side of, Well,

And I can't even tell you what he said

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8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Q. matter? A. Q.

KRONEBERGER1P.txt But you didn't follow up with HR on that

I did not. And I'm just about done here. Did you ever hear Tony Schnurr ask Tonya

House what she was going to do after she had her baby? A. Q. No. Did you ever hear Tony Schnurr ask Tonya

House, "Aren't you going to stay home with your baby?" A. No. MS. RYAN: this time. MS. HOLMES: Thanks. I have no further questions at

58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 1. Page ____ Line ____ Correction ________________ Reason ____________________________________________ 2. Page ____ Line ____ Correction _________________ Reason ____________________________________________ 3. Page ____ Line ____ Correction _________________ Reason ____________________________________________ 4. Page ____ Line ____ Correction ________________ Reason ____________________________________________ Page 52 C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF _____________) : ss. COUNTY OF ____________) I HEREBY CERTIFY that I have read the foregoing testimony consisting of 195 pages, numbered from 3 to 197, inclusive, and the same is a true and correct transcription of said testimony, with the exception of the corrections I have listed below in ink, giving my reasons therefor.

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KRONEBERGER1P.txt 5. Page ____ Line ____ Correction _______________ Reason ____________________________________________ 6. Page ____ Line ____ Correction _________________ Reason _________________________________________