Free Statement - District Court of Arizona - Arizona

EXHIBIT 10

Case 2:04-cv-00627-JAT

Document 99-3

Filed 11/04/2005

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF SANDRA CHRISTINE GASCHE MAY 11, 2005 EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION VS. CIGNA HEALTHCARE OF ARIZONA, INC. and CONNECTICUT GENERAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Holiday 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Inn, 3800 Homer M. Adams Parkway, in the City of Alton, State of Illinois, on the 11th day of May, 2005, before Nancy N. Abdallah, RPR, CCR, CSR (MO, IL) and Notary Public. JAT 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SANDRA CHRISTINE GASCHE, taken on behalf of the Plaintiff, at CIGNA HEALTHCARE OF ARIZONA, INC., and CONNECTICUT GENERAL LIFE INSURANCE COMPANY, DEFENDANTS. 1 2 3 4 5 6 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION, PLAINTIFF, vs. No. CIV'04 0627 PHX

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Mr. Steven Johnston Gore Perry Gateway & Lipa Reporting Company 515 Olive Street, Suite 700 St. Louis, MO 63101 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: Ms. Kristin R. Culbertson Littler Mendelson Camelback Esplanade 2425 E. Camelback Road Suite 900 Phoenix, Arizona 85016 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: Ms. Katherine J. Kruse Equal Employment Opportunity Commission Phoenix District Office 3300 North Central Avenue Suite 690 Phoenix, Arizona 85012 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EXHIBITS Deposition Exhibit 51 Deposition Exhibit 52 Deposition Exhibit 53 Deposition Exhibit 54 Deposition Exhibit 55 14 17 119 120 137 Examination by Ms. Kruse Examination by Ms. Culbertson Examination by Ms. Kruse Examination by Ms. Culbertson Examination by Ms. Kruse INDEX PAGE 6 146 152 157 158

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that's 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the date. Q And when you worked -- when you started 1 2 3 4 5 6 year? A Q Yes. And so that would mean that by November or

December of 2000 is when you became -- went on the payroll of CIGNA; is that correct? A I believe that's the date. I believe

working for CIGNA through Dependable Staffing, what was your job title? A Staffing specialist, recruiter, staffing

consultant. Q A Q And how long did you work for CIGNA? I left CIGNA in May of '04. And during the time that you worked there

did that title change at any time? A Yes. Well, when I came onboard, you know,

as a permanent employee, I guess my official title was staffing consultant and then later was senior staffing consultant. Q Do you know when your title changed to

senior staffing consultant? A I really don't remember exactly. It was

probably a year or so before I left, maybe a year and a few months. I don't recall exactly.

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1 2 exactly. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 consultant. 21 22 23 24 25 I was always employed, you know, at the CIGNA location, whether it was through Dependable or through CIGNA. Q A You were always employed where, now? Well, I was always staffing for CIGNA and a CIGNA employee. I'm sure we have it on record time 10 11 when I changed from -- you know, I don't recall exactly when I changed from a Dependable employee CIGNA 8 9 payroll? A I believe so. It was right around that 4 5 6 7 It was just a title change. Q But that would be the general time frame? A I think so. Q So in November of 2001 you were on the 1 2 3 Q So perhaps May of 2003 or even sometime earlier in 2003? A Sometime around -- I don't remember

somewhere, don't we? Q You indicated you started in November '99,

you believe, and that you switched over to CIGNA in November or December of 2000. A Q I think that's right. And the question I asked you was what was

your status in November of 2001. A Well, I believe I was a staffing

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 far 25 as -location? 23 24 A Well, they have -- they had different Do you mean as far as staffing or as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Connecticut General whether I was at the time a Dependable employee or on their payroll. Q And where -- in the time that you worked as a staffing consultant, where was your office? A I was actually moved around a bit. When I started I was located at the I-17 Black Canyon location. Q A Q A When you started through Dependable? Yes. Okay. I also worked out of the 19th Avenue and

Rose Garden location and I worked back out of the Black Canyon office. Q A Q Any others? No. Do you know where you were working in

November of 2001, where your office was located? A Q A Q It was at 19th Avenue and Rose Garden. And is that in Phoenix? Yes, it is. Do you know what other CIGNA entities are

located at the 19th Avenue and Rose Garden

divisions.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CIGNA 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what do -- would be doing business with them as well. Q Would that be like corporate employers who I 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 don't know how to explain what all they do. They work more with I think the -- it's hard to remember what -- all of the divisions of Connecticut General and CIGNA, but I think they worked more with the actual providers like setting up accounts on how they would be billed and things like that. Q A And what do you mean by "providers"? Well, providers would be someone that I 1 2 Q A What's Employer Services? They're I guess another division. They --

believe accepts CIGNA HealthCare insurance, so

offer CIGNA medical insurance to their employees? A Q Yes. So when you started with CIGNA or

Connecticut General in late '99, what were your initial job duties? A I staffed for the Phoenix -- for the

Healthcare Centers in Phoenix, usually -- or typically patient service specialists, medical records technicians. Q A And what did staffing involve? Staffing involved sourcing candidates,

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would -25 well, the first step to source a candidate, we 1 applicable, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 talking to applicants, testing, and when phone screens when applicable, in-face interviews when applicable, making job offers. Q When you say "sourcing," what does that mean? A Well, when we had a manager with a job that needed to be filled, that would be locating candidates. Q And did those duties -- had they changed in

any way by November 2001, other than that you were staffing for the Phoenix Call Center and possibly Employer Services rather than the Healthcare Centers. A Well, yes, because the different

divisions -- you know, there are different ways to source candidates and move them through the process if you're -- depending on the position you're sourcing for. Q 2001. A Well, in staffing for the Call Center, most So tell me about your duties in November of

of what we staffed there was customer service associates. And I believe the process at that time

had changed throughout time, but I believe it was

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 don't know how -- if you're using the term interchangeably or not, but -Q Unless I tell you otherwise, I'm using the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q (By Ms. Kruse) During the time that you were employed at CIGNA through Dependable Staffing, was your supervisor always a CIGNA supervisor? A You mean did I report to anyone through

Dependable? Q A Q Yes. Is that the question? Who was your -- did you report to a CIGNA

supervisor while you were paid by Dependable Staffing Services? A Well, yes. CIGNA or Connecticut General.

term to refer to any entity in the company. A Q Yes. Then, yes, I did.

So while you were paid by Dependable

Staffing you reported to a manager at CIGNA? A Q Yes. And did you take directions entirely from

your management at CIGNA? A Q A Q Yes. And you were performing work for CIGNA? Yes. You were staffing for CIGNA?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 offer 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 jobs to people? A Q A Q Yes. On behalf of CIGNA? Yes. And did you use a computer in your work at 1 2 3 4 A Yes. Q And did you have authority while you were employed -- while you were paid by Dependable Staffing, did you have authority from CIGNA to

CIGNA while you were paid by Dependable Staffing? A Q A Q paper? A Q A Q Yeah, sure. And were all those provided by CIGNA? Yes. So did Dependable Staffing Services do Yes. And was that a CIGNA computer? Yes. Did you use other materials at work, pens,

anything other than pay your paycheck during the time that they paid you while you worked for CIGNA? A Q No, they did not. Did you ever work for Kelly Services, or

were you ever paid by Kelly Services while you worked for CIGNA?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 given 3 4 twenty-four 5 sure 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it was. Q That's what's been indicated to us. Do you recall making a job offer to Carmen Santa Cruz? A Q A Yes, I do. In November of 2001? I'm sure that was the date, yes. It's been to her because the salary is incorrect. I believe it was twenty-four one -- I think it was one when we hired during that time. I'm pretty 1 2 it? A Yeah, I would be surprised if this was

a long time, but ... Q And before we get into the particulars, can

you turn to what's been marked as Exhibit 6 in a previous deposition? Glance at that to familiarize

yourself a bit, and let me know when you've had a chance to do that. A Q Okay. Are you familiar with the document that's

been marked as Exhibit 6? A Q A It's a job requisition. And what is a job requisition? Well, a job requisition is something we

would -- as there were positions approved for hire,

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1 2 that 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it 20 21 22 23 24 25 was a matter of who was available at what time. There was no -- it was just a matter of who was available to do the interviews from the panel of managers that were designated to interview. Q slots? So would they sign up for certain time 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 needed to be passed at that time, but no one -- we didn't send folks on to interview if they did not pass the test, so ... Q A Q But that indicates she passed it? Yes. And she was recommended for interview, it 1 2 3 Q So do you know whether all these scores are passing scores? A I don't recall what -- the exact scores

states on here? A Q Correct. And so Carmen Santa Cruz, according to this

form, was interviewed by Cheryl Wroten on November 16th, 2001? A Q Correct. And how was the decision made as to who

somebody interviewed with? A There were a pool of customer service

managers that were assigned to do interviews, and

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1 2 with 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 indicated 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 earlier that was your handwriting; correct? A Q A Q A That's correct. And it says, "November 16th, '01, LMVM." Yes. What does that stand for? Left message voicemail. That was my own 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 her. Q You don't recall anything specifically that 1 2 3 I don't -- you know, I don't think they're a good candidate, I'd, you know, probably not make them a job offer. I don't recall discussing specifics

you discussed with Cheryl Wroten about Carmen Santa Cruz before you made Carmen a job offer? A Q I don't. But you do recall making Carmen Santa Cruz

the offer? A Q I do. And did you contact Carmen Santa Cruz by

telephone to make her that offer? A Q Yes. And do you recall -- back on Exhibit 4, if

you would turn back to that -A Q Okay. -- under "Additional Comments" you

little ...

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 practice? 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't remember -- I don't remember, to 13 14 15 offer her a position? A Q I don't recall. Would that have been your standard 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q Abbreviation? A Abbreviation, yes. Q So does that indicate that you left Carmen Santa Cruz a voicemail to offer her the position? A Yes. Q And so the first time you called her she

didn't answer and you left her a message? A Well, I don't recall specifically, but if

that's what I wrote, then that's what would have happened, yes. Q And do you recall whether you actually

informed her on the message that you were calling

really, typically, if I left a voicemail just to call me back or if I said call me back to -- you know, I want to offer you a position. remember which way I did it. Q Do you recall, did Carmen Santa Cruz call I don't

you back, then? A Q A Yes. And do you recall the conversation? I don't recall specifics. It's been a very

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 meaning doctors 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 appointments? A Just that she would have some. I mean that 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 attendance 13 14 15 16 17 18 policy specifically during training because it was, you know, a lot of information in a short amount of time, and, you know, attendance was crucial during that time period. job offer. Q What did Carmen Santa Cruz say about And I remember her declining the conversation, anything you remember about it? A Yeah. Well, yes. I can tell you the gist of it. Again, I can't recall specifics; it's been way too long ago. I remember offering Carmen a position. She was a good candidate for us. I remember her then making some kind of comment about doctors' appointments, that she was expecting. I remember again, you know, reiterating, to the best of my ability, not knowing all the attendance facts, that there was a strict 1 2 long time. Q Is there anything you can tell me about

that's all I remember.

I don't remember specifics

of when she would have them or where she would have them or even if she made any comments to specific dates or times. Q And she indicated she was expecting,

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a 25 doctor's appointment on the 10th and preferred to to 21 22 23 24 fill the first class first. Q A Q So it's possible you told her that? It's possible. Do you recall her telling you that she had two 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 training classes, one on December 10 and one on December 17, but that you wanted her to start on December 10? A I don't recall that specifically, but that Oftentimes we filled 1 2 3 4 5 6 conversation, then? A Well, you would have to ask her that question, I guess. I don't know why she chose to reveal the information at that time. I wouldn't even have a guess. Q Do you recall mentioning that there were

wouldn't have been uncommon.

many classes -- you know, we had several dates set, and obviously we would try to fill the first one before we would move down the line. Q So it's possible that you told her that

there were two classes but that you wanted her to start on the 10th rather than the 17th? A Q A That would be possible. Rather than the 17th? Well, again, we would always try our best

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it 24 25 and help them make the best decision. Q Carmen Santa Cruz you indicated made you 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 candidates 22 23 had an understanding that the policy was, you know, strict during training and there was a reason for reread the testimony, please? look at it. So you testified that if someone raised concerns about whether they could meet the training requirements, it was in everyone's best interest to make sure the requirements were reinforced? A Yes, to make someone -- make sure Well, let me just 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 conversation and stated that it was strict? A Yes. Q What prompted you to discuss the attendance policy during this conversation? A Well, any time and all through the hiring process, from the hiring manager on, you know, if someone seemed to raise concerns about whether or not they would be able to meet the requirements of the training, it would be in everyone's best interest to make sure that understanding was reinforced so they would know -- make sure they had an understanding of what they were coming into if they accepted a position. Q So you testified that -- actually, could

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in 25 place. would 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 happen if she missed work or what do you mean? Q I'm asking you if Carmen Santa Cruz the 5 6 7 8 attendance policy? A I don't believe so. I mean, she never -- I 1 2 3 4 comments about that she would have doctors' appointments and that she was pregnant; correct? A (Nods head.) Q Did she actually express a concern about

guess I'd ask you to qualify that question. Did she ask me specifically or -- what

expressed concerns about her ability to meet the attendance requirements during this conversation. A Q Not that I recall. But you had -- you stated that you

reinforced the attendance requirements because, if someone had concerns about the requirements, they needed to be reinforced? A Well, I guess I didn't say that right. I

guess how I should have put it was, you know, if someone were telling me, you know, I have doctors' appointments or I have a vacation plan or whatever, then it would prompt me to say, hey, remember our attendance policy, you know, if you accept the position, remember the rigid attendance policy is

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you reinforced the attendance policy? A I wouldn't remember a specific response. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q A Q And that's what you did here? Yes. So Carmen Santa Cruz indicated she had

doctors' appointments because of her pregnancy, and that prompted you to reinforce the rigid attendance policy? A Specifically during training, the most

crucial time. Q Did Carmen Santa Cruz make any response

Again, that's been too many years ago. Q said? A Q Nothing that's coming right to my mind. Did she indicate that she didn't anticipate Do you remember in general anything she

any problems with the attendance policy? A I don't recall. You know, as a recruiter,

it would not be my job nor my place to determine if someone can meet attendance requirements. their knowledge and their decision. That's

My job is just

to make sure they understand that it is in place. Otherwise, I would be playing a bit of a fortune teller or a God or something if I'm trying to determine if someone can make it to work or not.

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1 2 3 4 hired 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q (By Ms. Kruse) So is it possible that you to 17 18 them, you know, keep in contact, watch the web site if another class comes up that works better for her 11 12 13 14 15 16 baby was born? MS. CULBERTSON: THE WITNESS: Form. 7 8 9 10 classes, you know, from time to time throughout the year. Q So it's possible that you suggested to Carmen Santa Cruz that she recontact CIGNA after we 5 6 have one at a later date that would work better for you. That wouldn't have been uncommon, and we 1 2 3 4 specific training class, and if for whatever reason that specific date didn't work for them and we felt they were a good candidate, we would say, you know, keep an eye on our Web site, keep in touch, maybe

Well, if I would have, it

would have been after she declined a job offer, and so my response would have been I wouldn't want to lose a good candidate. So I would have suggested

suggested that she -- Carmen Santa Cruz recontact CIGNA after her baby was born? MS. CULBERTSON: Form. And as to the way

the question was stated, Kathy, I think she specifically testified three or four times about this. Asked and answered, among other objections.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't recall what occurred in my mind 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 about you raising the attendance policy? MS. CULBERTSON: Form. THE WITNESS: I don't. I'm not Carmen. Q A Q (By Ms. Kruse) No, I didn't. Did it occur to you that she might be upset Did you ask her?

because she believed you were assuming she couldn't meet the attendance policy once she revealed that she was pregnant? MS. CULBERTSON: THE WITNESS: Form.

I wouldn't want to guess why.

I wouldn't have a guess. Q (By Ms. Kruse) So that didn't occur to

several years ago at that time. Q And did you have a conversation -- did you

discuss this conversation with Heather Casey after you spoke to Carmen Santa Cruz? A Yes. Carmen and I hung up the phone, and,

you know, I still felt Carmen was a good candidate. I wanted to make sure she -- before she just declined a position, I wanted to make 100 percent sure that she did understand the whole attendance policy, and Heather Casey would be the one that would be able to explain that to her, not myself.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 already? 25 A Well, me not being able to give exact say, 20 21 22 23 24 "Are you sure you don't want the position? the policy. better." Q Were you concerned that Carmen had Here is did 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 she want the position or not want the position. Q I thought you testified that Carmen had already declined the position? A She did decline the position. Q So why did you indicate -- why were you 1 2 So I asked Heather to give her a call and just make sure she had a clear understanding and

thinking that she still might accept the position? A Well, she was a good candidate for us, so,

again, I wanted to make sure, before someone -before she declined a position, I wanted to make sure she was a hundred percent aware of the attendance, and Heather would be the one to be able to do that for her. Q You just testified you wanted to make sure,

before Carmen declined the position, that she was a hundred percent aware of the attendance policy? A No, Carmen did decline the position, but I

wanted to give her another chance, I guess, and

In depth Heather can explain it to you

misunderstood what you had explained to her

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Human a 23 24 25 full understanding of the attendance requirements? A Well, I couldn't give them to her well 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 on the job, so it's not -- I would not encourage or discourage anyone. That's a personal decision whole 10 11 interview process of the requirements of the position, the skills that are needed to perform 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 another chance because you were interested in her, why were you focused on making sure she understood the attendance policies if the goal was to incur -well, let me ask, was the goal to encourage Carmen to take the position? A You know, as a recruiter, my specific job would not have been to encourage or discourage anyone but to make sure they had an understanding, which the whole -- which is the reason for the

whether to change jobs and accept a job or not. Q A Q A She had already declined a job; right? Yes. You wanted to give her another chance? I wanted to make sure she had a clear

understanding, because I thought she was a good candidate, so she could make the best choice for herself. Q So were you concerned that she didn't have

specifically because I don't enforce them like

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1 2 3 4 make 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 own 25 mind about the attendance policy, it would be why would 24 be my assumption that if she had concerns in her means 20 21 22 23 of giving her another chance? A Well, you know, I don't know if giving her was. 16 17 18 19 Q And when you decided to call her back 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 sure of. Q And if you wanted to give her another chance, why were you focused on -- let me ask it a different way. Did Carmen tell you she was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Resources or the customer service managers do, so I wanted to make sure she had an understanding. Q So were you concerned she hadn't gotten a full understanding from you of the attendance requirement? A Well, I didn't know. I wanted to make sure because I -- because it's an important thing to

declining the position because of the attendance requirements? A She didn't say why she was or wasn't. She didn't say why she She

only said that she was.

because you wanted to give her another chance, then why were you -- why did -- why did you believe clarifying the attendance requirements was the

another chance is the right -- I don't know if I'm using the right terminology. She seemed -- it

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fully educated about those attendance requirements? A Q Right. Because it appeared to you that Carmen was doesn't 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 have to if she -- I don't know any other reason why she would. Q So you thought, then, if I ask Heather to if 7 8 9 10 11 she accepted the position. Q So you believed that Carmen was concerned 1 2 3 4 5 6 she would bring up anything to me at all. She didn't have to tell me anything about doctors' appointments or anything; it wouldn't make any difference to me. But since she did, I felt it would be a good idea for me to make sure she had an understanding so she knew what she was accepting,

about attendance? A Well, I don't know why -- any other reason

why she would bring things up to me that she

talk to her, that might address her concerns about attendance or at least make -- let me restate that. You're stating that you wanted Heather or Casey to talk to Carmen just to make sure Carmen

concerned about them? A Q Yes, since she -And that appeared to you because she raised

the issue of she had doctors' appointments?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 comments 22 23 24 25 what was going on. Q Did you write any other notes about either you 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 have any idea why it's written on Exhibit 4, the first page, twice? A I don't remember exactly. Quite possibly, offer 14 declined and the date as noted on here twice, do wanted 9 10 11 12 13 Q Heather to have that conversation with her? MS. CULBERTSON: THE WITNESS: (By Ms. Kruse) Form. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 had needed a conversation with someone else to get clarification on an issue, then I would let them have that conversation. Q So there was a doubt in your mind about whether Carmen Santa Cruz needed clarification on the attendance issue -MS. CULBERTSON: Form. Q (By Ms. Kruse) -- and that's why you

Yes, I guess so. Did you make any other The

notes -- well, actually, let me back off.

you know, oftentimes, if I jotted something at the top in haste, then I would make sure I had it down later, you know, so as I looked back through something it would be clear to me under the

of your conversations with Carmen Santa Cruz, Sandra?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Every 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Facilities"? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A I do. Was this CIGNA's employee handbook in 2001? I don't recall what the handbook exactly offer -- I remember the offer letters to reflect Connecticut General Life Insurance Company as the employer. Q Can you turn to what was marked in a Is that -- oh, 1 2 3 4 start training in December, would they be working for Connecticut General Life Insurance Company when they were hired? A Well, I believe they would have been.

previous deposition as Exhibit 22. yeah, you're on that. A Q Yes.

Do you see on the first page it says, "You

and CIGNA Employee Program Services and

looked like at that time. Q Have you seen the excerpts from -- that are

contained in Exhibit 22 in an employee handbook at CIGNA? A I don't recall the exact information that

was in their handbook. Q Could you turn to the page in Exhibit 22

that's marked EEOC CGLIC 0139, and it states, "Affirmative Action/Equal Employment Opportunity."

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then 25 that -- at that time, November of 2001, that the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 would have an Equal Employment Opportunity policy and law in place. Q So in November 2001 you would have -- had you not known the specific policy as shown in Exhibit 22, it would have been your belief that CIGNA did have an Equal Employment Opportunity policy; is that your testimony? A Q Yes. And you would have believed -- you would

have known that it encompassed sex discrimination? A Q Yes. And would you have known that sex

discrimination included discrimination based on pregnancy in November of 2001? A I don't know that I understand that. I

don't know that I understand what you're asking. Q You've testified that you would -- had you

not known the specific policy, you would have assumed CIGNA had an Equal Employment policy in November 2001 that prohibited sex discrimination; right? A Any kind of discrimination, sex, race,

religion, disability. Q So my question is, would you have known

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q law. Q Would you have known in November of 2001 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 prohibition on sex discrimination included a prohibition on pregnancy discrimination? A I'm not sure I know how to answer that question because it would seem to me that pregnancy discrimination would be -- I don't know if it would fall under sex, if it would fall under disability. I don't know where it would fall, exactly, under

that pregnancy discrimination was illegal? A Q Yes. And do you see, the next paragraph below

where I was reading before states, "Every employee has a responsibility to support this policy"? you see that? A Q Yeah, I do. And the next sentence, "Managers and Do

supervisors are personally responsible and accountable for supporting and advancing CIGNA's Equal Employment Opportunity objectives." Do you see that? I see that. In your -- in November of 2001, how were

managers and supervisors personally responsible to support and advance CIGNA's Equal Employment

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1 specifics 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 their think 24 25 it's common knowledge that you don't discriminate against someone based on their sex, their age, it 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 was illegal to discriminate based on sex and pregnancy; correct? A Q that? A Well, I think that's common knowledge. I I Sure. And when -- how did you become aware of not 11 12 13 14 15 16 saying it didn't exist. I don't recall anything. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 of performance evaluations, specific categories or anything, not that -- I don't recall. Q You don't recall whether Equal Employment Opportunity was a performance evaluation category? A I don't recall. Q And you indicated earlier, you don't remember any trainings or conversations about Equal Employment Opportunity at CIGNA; is that correct? A I don't remember specific training. I'm 1 A Not that I recall. I don't recall

Nothing specifically is coming to my mind. Q But you don't recall going to any training

on Equal Employment Opportunity laws at CIGNA? A Q I don't recall. You testified earlier you were aware that

mean I've been a recruiter for a long time.

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1 2 3 training. 4 the 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 candidate a 21 22 23 24 25 time -- whoever had time to pick up housekeeping issues, that's what they did. So I shouldn't say did 19 20 it or if it was -- the information was entered by someone else. Again, that was a thing that it was sure 18 if I've seen it before because I don't know if I time. 16 17 Q A And why are you sure you've seen it before? Well, I guess I'm not a hundred percent seen 11 12 13 14 15 this document before? A It's an offer form for Carmen. Q Have you seen this particular offer form before for Carmen Santa Cruz? A Well, I'm sure I have at some point in 7 8 9 10 Equal Employment Opportunity policy at CIGNA? A No, I don't recall. Q Can you turn to what was marked in a previous deposition as Exhibit 5. And have you 6 Q Do you recall ever being asked to review 1 2 3 4 5 Q (By Ms. Kruse) Sandra, you testified earlier that you didn't recall any training you got at CIGNA on the company's Equal Employment Opportunity policy; right? A Yeah. I don't recall any specific

I'm sure I have because I'm not sure I have. Q Is an offer form completed -- in November

2001 was an offer form completed for every

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 person 22 23 24 25 was out and an offer -- absent or whatever and an offer needed to be rescinded, it would go to one of their peers. done. It would never come to Staffing to be use, 20 21 a job offer. to do that. No one in staffing had the authority In fact, if that Human Resources have. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 MS. CULBERTSON: I have a couple follow-up. or 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 I have a surgery scheduled or I have something, then, you know, I think it would be logical to want to explain attendance policy to them again to make sure they had an understanding. But since I couldn't explain it in the minutest of detail that Heather could, she was a good candidate for us. I didn't want her to just walk away and say okay. MS. KRUSE: That's all the questions I 1 2 instances, if someone is telling me I have a doctor's appointment or I have a vacation planned

EXAMINATION QUESTIONS BY MS. CULBERTSON: Q In 2001, when you were working at

Connecticut General as a staffing consultant, did you have the authority to withdraw an offer of employment? A No. Human Resources are the only people

that could rescind, is the terminology we would

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is 23 24 25 anything you need to clarify or change. MS. CULBERTSON: of things. You can do one of a couple that 22 you review it to see if it's accurate or if there to 21 read and sign your deposition, which just means know, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 they declined it. It was your discretion then, but 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 MS. CULBERTSON: Okay. That's all I have. MS. KRUSE: I have just one more question then. EXAMINATION QUESTIONS BY MS. KRUSE: Q Did you have the authority to accept somebody declining an offer without further conversation from Human Resources? A Yes. Q A In November of 2001? Yes. At any time a staffing consultant, if

someone declined a job offer you didn't -- you

we did not have authority to rescind. MS. KRUSE: That's all I have. That's it. This concludes the We are off the record

MS. CULBERTSON: THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

deposition of Sandra Gasche. at 1:59. This ends Tape 3. MS. KRUSE:

Would you like an opportunity

You can just let your deposition

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EXHIBIT 11

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTED BY: Kristin A. Woodall, RPR Certified Court Reporter Certificate No. 50196 PREPARED FOR: ASCII (Copy) Defendants. CIGNA Healthcare of Arizona, Inc., and Connecticut General Life Insurance Company, vs. Plaintiff, IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA Equal Employment Opportunity ) Commission, ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) No. CIV 04-0627-PHX-JAT

________________________________) DEPOSITION OF HEATHER GILES Phoenix, Arizona March 25, 2005 9:06 a.m.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 No. 2 15 16 No. 3 17 18 19 No. 5 20 21 22 No. 7 23 24 25 GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230 No. 8 Job Requisition, Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-0071 - EEOC-CGLIC-0073 Applicant Flow Log, Bates Nos. D0023 - D0027 76 No. 6 "Offer Form for Santa Cruz, Carmen," Bates Nos. D0774 - D0779 Job Requisition Details, Bates Nos. D0028 - D0030 59 No. 4 Memo dated 7-16-03, Bates No. EEOC-CGLIC-0089 Employment Tracking Form, Bates Nos. D0001 - D0004 49 Flexible Time Off Policy Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-0046 EEOC-CGLIC-0055 17 No. 1 CIGNA Employee Handbook, Bates Nos. D0765 - D0773A 13 Deposition Exhibits: E X H I B I T S WITNESS HEATHER GILES Examination by Ms. Kruse Examination by Mr. Coulter Further Examination by Ms. Kruse 5 130 132 I N D E X PAGE

Description

Page

54

70

80

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1 2 3 4 No. 11 5 6 7 No. 13 8 9 10 No. 15 11 12 13 14 No. 17 15 16 17 No. 19 18 19 20 No. 21 21 22 23 24 No. 23 25 Printout from website, Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-00374 - EEOC-CGLIC-00379 GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230 124 No. 22 "Demographics," Bates Nos. D0266 D0274 "You and CIGNA, Employee Programs Services and Facilities," Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-0130 EEOC-CGLIC-0216 115 No. 20 Cycle Reports, Bates Nos. D0752 D0759 "Location History View," Bates Nos. D0262 - D0263 113 No. 18 W-2 Wage and Tax Statement, Bates No. D0265 Cycle Reports, Bates Nos. D0744 D0751 113 No. 16 Cycle Reports, Bates Nos. D0760 D0764 "Welcome to the CIGNA HealthCare Phoenix Customer Service Call Center" Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-0101 EEOC-CGLIC-0118 102 No. 14 Cycle Reports, Bates Nos. D0724 D0733 Cyle Reports, Bates Nos. D0734 D0743 98 No. 12 Printout from website, Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-00426 - EEOC-CGLIC-00429 W-2 Wage and Tax Statement, Bates No. D0264 93 No. 10 No. 9 United States Securities and Exchange Commission Form 10-K, Bates Nos. D0128 - D0130 Printout from website, Bates Nos. EEOC-CGLIC-00422 - EEOC-CGLIC-00425 90

91

97

101

103

113

115

119

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. KRUSE: Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. be Casey? A. Q. A. Q. Yes, that's my maiden name. Okay. Heather, when did you get married? Can you state your name for the record, please. Heather Giles. Heather Giles? Yes. How do you spell Giles? G-I-L-E-S. And was your last name -- your last name used to EXAMINATION HEATHER GILES, called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn by the Certified Court Reporter, was examined and testified as follows:

November of 2000. So, if -- did you keep the name Casey while you

were employed at CIGNA? A. Q. Yes. Okay. So, if there's documents from CIGNA that

refer to Heather Casey, that would be you, to your knowledge? A. Right.

Q. Heather, did you meet with counsel for -- well, GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. consultant. Q. A. And what were your job duties in that position? Enforcing policies, creating some policies, Those were the Q. Ms. Casey? A. Q. A. Heather is fine. Heather, do you work for CIGNA right now? No. MR. COULTER: Form.

(By Ms. Kruse) When did you work -- you have

worked for CIGNA in the past though? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) When did you begin? February 7th of 2000. What was your initial position? Senior HR, HR consultant, human resources

employee relations, management development. main ones. Q. A.

What do you mean by employee relations? Any issues that employees might have regarding

policies, supervisors, managers, any morale issues from an overall perspective. Q. A. And what do you mean by management development? Training in various -- like, for example, Family

Medical Leave Act, so they have a basic understanding how to GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Yes. And below that in the second of the two boxes, it

says "Service Operations, Employer Services and Call Claims"? A. Q. Yes. And then there's an arrow to a star that says

"Phoenix Service Center"? A. Q. Correct. So, when you were in human resources, were you

working with the Phoenix service center? A. Q. Yes. And did you have any affiliation with the service

operations other than the Phoenix service center? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. No. And Heather, do you have an

(By Ms. Kruse) Okay.

understanding about what part of CIGNA Corporation that service operations falls within? A. Q. A. Corporation. Q. So, CIGNA Healthcare is part -- is part of CIGNA Yes. And what's your understanding? It falls within CIGNA Healthcare under CIGNA

Corporation as opposed to a subsidiary, is that your testimony? MR. COULTER: Form.

THE WITNESS: I'm not sure. I'm not sure I GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 manual. Q. A. Q. I'll rephrase. Okay. Does this flexible time off policy that's been Q. And is this policy part of a larger manual, to

your knowledge? A. No. I mean, I'm not sure what you mean by larger

marked as Exhibit 2 appear within a larger document, like an employee handbook or something of that nature? A. Q. No. And do you see at the top, this flexible time off

policy states "Effective July 23rd, 2001," right? A. Q. Yes. Do you know whether this policy in Exhibit 2

remained in effect in 2002? A. I honestly can't remember if it would be the

exact same policy. Q. Can you turn to the last page, Exhibit 2 is EEOC So, I want you to turn to 0055. Can

CGLIC-0036 through 0055.

you tell me what it states at the top of that page there, just -A. Q. "New Employees Progressive Disciplinary Process." Is this page 0055, does this state the attendance

policy for new employees at CIGNA? MR. COULTER: Form. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. THE WITNESS: Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) Heather, take a minute to review

it and let me know when you've had a chance to do that. A. Q. Okay. I've read it.

Did this new employee attendance policy apply at

the Phoenix service center that you testified you were part of? A. Q. Yes. And it provides for progressive discipline for

unplanned absences, correct? A. Q. Yes. Do you know what is meant by "unplanned absence"

in this document? A. I believe it's actually any absence during the

training period for the first 90 days of employment. Q. A. And what's your basis for that belief? Because during the first 90 days, the new

employee was not eligible for any planned time off, which would mean vacation, at the time what we call supplemental time. Q. So, any absence by a new employee in those first

90 days would be an unplanned absence? A. Q. Yes. And it indicates in this document that for the

first unplanned absence, there's a verbal counseling notice, correct? A. Right. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. And what is the verbal counseling notice? It would be a discussion with the employee, a

verbal discussion. Q. And are they given a written document confirming

the verbal discussion? A. Q. No, I don't believe so. So, notice, verbal counseling notice, the word

"notice" does not refer to a written document then? A. Q. No. Then see where it states at the second unplanned

absence a "Requires Improvement" notice? A. Q. A. Yes. And can you tell me what that is? That would be another discussion as well as

written documentation or written notice of the second unplanned absence. Q. And does the employee who has a second unplanned

absence get a copy of the written notice? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. Is a copy also retained in the employee's file? Yes. And then it says, third unplanned absence, "Job Do you see that?

in Jeopardy" notice. A. Yes.

Q. And can you tell me what that is? GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. That would be another discussion as well as

another written notification of a third unplanned absence, and the employee would receive a copy and a copy would need to be retained in the employee file. Q. Do you see in the next paragraph, it states that

there's a job in jeopardy period of 30 days. A. Q. Yes. And during the 30-day period, if the employee

accumulates one additional unplanned absence, he or she will be subject to discharge, correct? A. Q. Yes. Is discharge automatic after one additional

absence during that 30 days of job in jeopardy period? A. Q. No. So, it's discretionary? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) And who makes with respect to --

first, does the Phoenix service center, are the customer service associates part of the Phoenix service center? A. Q. Yes. And with respect to customer service associates

of the Phoenix service center in their first 90 days, who makes the decision about whether they would be terminated for an absence within that 30-day job in jeopardy period? GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 chart, it would have been Tiffany Dillard, the human resources director. Q. (By Ms. Kruse) And when you say "that

organizational chart," you're pointing to Exhibit 1, slide 14, the Phoenix service center organizational chart? A. Q. Yes. Where is Tiffany Dillard on this chart, if you The first box on the upper left-hand

could show me at the top? corner? A. Q. Correct.

On the absence policy for new employees, after a Do you

fourth unplanned absence, it says "Termination Review." see that? A. Q. A. Yes. Can you tell me what that is?

That would be as I just described, a discussion

between the trainer, human resources, and one of the directors to determine whether the trainer would proceed with a termination or if there was, you know, discretion needed and the termination would not be warranted at that time. Q. So, there's discretion after the fourth unplanned

absence on whether termination will occur? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Correct.

Q. (By Ms. Kruse) Are you aware of any circumstances GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Corporation? MS. KRUSE: As I've defined it generally at the I'm asking about your knowledge. I don't Q. in which an employee at the Phoenix service center was not terminated following either an absence within their job in jeopardy notice period or their fourth unplanned absence? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) Under what circumstances has CIGNA

not terminated somebody in those circumstances? MR. COULTER: Form. Do you mean CIGNA

beginning of the deposition. MR. COULTER: understand the question. Q. A. Q.

I guess objection.

(By Ms. Kruse) Do you understand the question? Well, I'm not sure. You indicated you were -- if I understood your

testimony correctly, you stated you were aware of circumstances in which individuals at the Phoenix service center for CIGNA were not terminated after a fourth unplanned absence or during a job in jeopardy notice period, right? A. Q. Right. And I'm asking you what were the circumstances,

the reasons they were not terminated? MR. COULTER: Form, foundation. I

THE WITNESS: I'm just trying to remember. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. know that it occurred while I was in the human resources role. I'm just trying to remember a specific situation because it's been a few years. Q. A. (By Ms. Kruse) Take your time. I don't know. I couldn't tell you the name, but

I know the circumstance prior that, you know, a person may have had a death in the family or, you know, an immediate family member may have had, you know, a series of accidents or was hospitalized, those kinds of circumstances. It's likely we

would not have gone through a termination when they were at that point. Q. And let me just make sure I understand it. Do

you remember, without remembering individual names, do you remember specific circumstances in which death in the family caused someone -- caused the Phoenix service center not to terminate somebody who was in violation of the 90-day policy? MR. COULTER: Form.

(By Ms. Kruse) Did you understand the question? Yes, I did. I'm just trying to think of the

specifics around it.

I know that it's been some type of

situation like that, but I probably can't give you any more details about that specific situation. Q. So, my question is, do you recall specifically

that there was a death in the family justified not terminating somebody? GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES

602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. And do you recall specifically that a serious

accident of a family member justified not terminating somebody who was in violation of the 90-day policy for new employees? A. Q. Yes. Any other circumstances you can think of that

justify the discretion not to terminate somebody who was in violation of the 90-day policy? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form, foundation. I can't think of anybody, but that

doesn't mean that there isn't any more than those two. Q. (By Ms. Kruse) You see continuing on on the

attendance policy at the last page of Exhibit 2, it states that, "A new employee will transition to the regular attendance policy and will be considered in good standing from a disciplinary standpoint after 90 days and successful completion of the job in jeopardy, if applicable"? A. Q. applicable." Right. "Successful completion of the job in jeopardy, if Does that mean that they don't have any

additional absences after 30 days? A. Q. Correct. And what is -- what does this mean, to your

knowledge, when it says they'll be "considered in good standing from a disciplinary standpoint"? GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yes. Q. Do you have -- do you know how many customer Q. A. I believe at the time that their attendance would It would be wiped

basically be wiped, it would be a new slate. clean.

They would start over on the new employee -- or I'm

sorry, the -- they would start over on a new attendance policy. Q. So, if they complete -- if a new employee

completes 90 days and any 30-day job in jeopardy period, they're in good standing, they're subject to a new policy and none of their absences carry over for disciplinary purposes; is that correct? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Right.

(By Ms. Kruse) And Heather, you already

testified, didn't you, that this policy is followed at the Phoenix service center? A. It was at the time that I was in human resources,

service associates at the Phoenix service center were disciplined under this policy in 2001? A. Q. No, I couldn't tell you. Any idea, any estimate of the number? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: question again, please? Q. (By Ms. Kruse) I'm just asking, do you have GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230 Form. Was that -- can you ask me that

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 November of 2001? A. Q. No. How did you come to have that conversation with

Carmen Santa Cruz? A. consultant. At the time Sandra Gasche was our staffing She came to see me because she had spoken with

Carmen Santa Cruz, had offered her a customer service associate position with the Phoenix service center, and Carmen had made Sandra aware that she was pregnant and that she had some questions, concerns about the attendance policy. Sandra

explained the attendance policy as she knows it in this flexible time off policy. Carmen Santa Cruz had some additional concerns, questions about doctors' appointments and things like that and Sandra came to talk to me because I was in human resources and I administered and enforced the policy, that was not her role to do that. And she wanted to see if there was any flexibility

with the policy since that was my role. Q. So, you -- so, in November 2001, you were

responsible for administering and enforcing the 90-day attendance policy for new hires at the Phoenix service center? A. Q. Yes. So, when you testified earlier that -- in -- when

discretionary decisions were made about whether to terminate somebody after either a violation during your job in jeopardy GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 correct? A. Right. A. Typically when they reached the job in jeopardy,

there would be a discussion with one of the directors as well as human resources. Q. A. Q. And who would have that discussion with them? With the employee, or with -You stated that at the job in jeopardy stage,

which is the third unplanned absence, correct? A. Q. Yes. That there would be a -- there would be a

discussion with human resources? A. Q. A. Yes. Who would be involved in that discussion? It was the trainer of the class and the human

resources and a director. Q. And while you were in human resources, the HR

person that the trainer would contact would have been you? A. Q. Yes. You testified that Sandra Gasche had contacted

Carmen Santa Cruz to offer her the customer service associate position, correct? A. Q. Right. And that Carmen had explained she was pregnant,

Q. And that Carmen Santa Cruz had concerns about the GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 discussion. Q. 90-day attendance policy for new hires, correct? A. Q. Right. And that Carmen Santa Cruz had concerns about

doctor's appointments during the 90 days; is that correct? A. Q. Right. Now, were those all things that Sandra Gasche

told you when she came to speak to you about the situation? A. Q. Yes. And you testified that Sandra came to you to see

if there was any flexibility in the 90-day policy; is that correct? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Right.

(By Ms. Kruse) And do you recall your

conversation with Sandra Gasche about the situation following Gasche's telephone or contact with Carmen Santa Cruz? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Well, basically that was the

Sandra came and told me those things that I just

stated, or that you just stated, and then she asked if we could maybe call Carmen at home so that she could clearly understand the policy. Q. (By Ms. Kruse) And had Sandra's previous

conversation with Carmen been by telephone? A. Yes. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Cruz? A. Q. No, no. That was the discussion. Q. Q. A. Q. MR. COULTER: Form.

(By Ms. Kruse) That's what Sandra told you? Yes. So, she asked -- Sandra Gasche asked you if you

could call Carmen Santa Cruz together to clarify the attendance policy? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Form. Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) And did you and Sandra discuss

anything else during the conversation? A. Q. With Santa Cruz, or between us? Between yourselves before you contacted Santa

Santa Cruz -- or I mean, excuse me, Sandra Gasche

wanted to see if there was any flexibility in the 90-day policy? MR. COULTER: Form, foundation.

(By Ms. Kruse) You testified, correct? Right. What did you tell her? That unfortunately with our 90-day new hire

policy, it was very critical that employees are at work each day because of the technical aspects of the training as well as the fact that we only have one trainer for 20 new hires, and if GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is accurate. Q. (By Ms. Kruse) So, before we took a break, we the restroom. MS. KRUSE: Absolutely. THE WITNESS: Can we actually -- I need to use

(Recess taken from 10:00 a.m. to 10:06 a.m.) MS. KRUSE: I'm going to ask you if you can

remember to just try to speak up a little bit because the court reporter is straining to hear you. MR. COULTER: MS. KRUSE: She's reading lips. We just want to make sure the record

were talking about a conversation in which Sandra Gasche asked you to call Carmen Santa Cruz, correct? A. Q. Right. And did Sandra Gasche and you contact Ms. Santa

Cruz jointly then? A. Q. A. Q. Yes. And was it via telephone? Yes. And did you -- on your end, did you put the

conversation on a speakerphone so that both you and Sandra could hear what Carmen Santa Cruz was saying? A. Q. Yes. And did you -- when you called Carmen Santa Cruz

together, did you both speak with her during that conversation? GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 minutes. Q. And tell me as much as you remember about that GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230 Q. A. Yes. I believe I -- I believe I referred to

Santa Cruz and said that Sandra was on the line, but I don't know that Sandra actually spoke very much during that conversation. Q. Okay. When you said you referred to that, what

are you talking about? MR. COULTER: Form.

(By Ms. Kruse) Are you talking about your prior

testimony or ... A. No. When we called Santa Cruz, Sandra and I

called her together on the speakerphone, Sandra just did not -there was not a lot of discussion from her, but she did know, Santa Cruz did know that Sandra was there with me. Q. Okay. So, did you do all the speaking to Carmen

Santa Cruz during that conversation? A. Q. Yes. Sandra Gasche didn't say anything to Carmen

during that conversation to your recollection? A. Q. Right. So, how soon after your conversation with Sandra

Gasche did the two of you make a phone call to Carmen Santa Cruz? A. I would probably say within about 15 to 20

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sandra. phone call to Carmen Santa Cruz. A. It was very similar to my discussion with

I identified myself to Carmen Santa Cruz and that

Sandra was here with me in the office and that I knew she had -- Sandra had shared that Santa Cruz had concerns about the 90-day attendance policy for new hires. And I proceeded to explain to her that unfortunately there was not a lot of flexibility for two reasons, one being that it's a highly technical training. It

is about 8 to 10 weeks in length, and there is, you know, there is quite a bit of fallout. There's probably about 30 percent

turnover because it is highly technical. And the second reason is because there is a 1 to 20 approximately ratio of trainers to new hires, it makes it very difficult if someone misses time, because that trainer needs to spend one-on-one time with that employee and it's very difficult if, you know, you have 10 people in the classroom missing a few hours at a time. keep up. Q. conversation. A. And then I also went through the attendance Tell me everything else you remember about the It makes it very difficult to

policy, the 90 days with her regarding a first absence would be a verbal warning, a second absence would be the next step, and so on. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. Q. A. Anything else? I don't recall saying anything else. I do recall

her saying that it doesn't sound like the job for her. Q. A. Q. A. Do you recall anything else? No, I don't. How did you end the conversation? You know, I really don't recall specifically. I

just remember the last piece that Santa Cruz saying that it didn't sound like the role for her, the job for her. Q. Did you tell Ms. Santa Cruz that Sandra Gasche

had informed you that Santa Cruz was pregnant? A. Q. I believe so. CIGNA doesn't have a problem hiring pregnant

employees, does it? A. No. MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: MR. COULTER: Form. No. Foundation.

(By Ms. Kruse) At least in your experience? MR. COULTER: THE WITNESS: Same objection. Yes.

(By Ms. Kruse) Did you let Carmen Santa Cruz know

that CIGNA was happy to bring her aboard and that her pregnancy was not an issue? A. No, I didn't say that specifically. GRIFFIN AND ASSOCIATES 602.264.2230

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. THE WITNESS: No.

(By Ms. Kruse) Did you tell Carmen Santa Cruz

during the conversation that CIGNA has -- is happy to hire pregnant employees and that she was welcome to come there? A. No. MR. COULTER: Form.

(By Ms. Kruse) Heather, did you make any notes

about this conversation that you had with Carmen Santa Cruz on the telephone where Sandra Gasche was present listening? A. Q. No. Do you know, did you observe whether Sandra

Gasche was making any notes? A. I believe the only thing she noted was on the

application packet that she declined the offer. Q. And did you observe her making that note during

this conversation in your office? A. Q. Yes. Did you observe Sandr